Getting real tired of the media's headlines

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
08/12/2014 at 01:10 • Filed to: None

Why is everyone trying to demonize Tony? He didn't hit and kill this kid on purpose. I've even read some that go as far as to imply murder. This was an unfortunate accident, but in no way did Tony now down the kid in a murderous rampage. FFS.

DISCUSSION (46)

Ryanator122 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:18

So why did he gas it under yellow, near a wreck?

I really would like to hear his statement of what happened.

All Motor Is Best Motor > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:19

The media likes to stir up controversy. It seems "edgy" and generates more views because there's a lot of shallow scum out there. I posted about this yesterday when a Deadspin article showed up doing the same shit:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/that-deadspin-…

Rainbow > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:21

He was nowhere near as careful as he should have been, though. He's the one who hit the car, so at the very least he knew there was going to be a disabled vehicle in that corner. Even if he hadn't hit Ward, that was a needlessly reckless move.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Ryanator122
08/12/2014 at 01:24

Sprint cars won't turn without being sideways, due to a locked diff. Literally they will understeer into a wall if you don't get it sideways, even at their lowest speeds(which is around 40-50 mph because they have one gear). So, he gassed it to turn it.

Rainbow > All Motor Is Best Motor
08/12/2014 at 01:25

To be fair, the rich and famous are never found as guilty as they really are. I expect him to get off completely with no more than a short suspension from racing, but he deserves to face manslaughter charges regardless.

That said, I don't think he meant to kill or even hurt the kid. He just needs to own up to it anyway.

mcseanerson > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:27

I've been waiting to speak about this on FP or Oppo and I hope it has died down enough that I can speak my mind and logic works it way into discussions on this. Plain and simple there is only one sure fire element that could have been easily 100% controlled in this event. The kid should have stayed strapped in his car. What Tony's intentions were nobody will ever know without doubt except for Tony. Personally I don't think it was his intention to hurt the kid because something that dumb is not worth the very small accident that had occurred. Only one person was visibly reckless in that footage and that was Ward. Even if Tony had been a villainous murderer it's not like he paid Snidely Whiplash to tie him to some train tracks and wait for him to come around. Ward put himself in the path of traffic and any of those other racers could just easily have hit him and if one of them had you can guarantee people wouldn't be so quick to accuse all them of murder.

What happened is terrible and tragic and my prayers go out to all those affected, including Tony. That being said I just can't get over how stupid and hot headed it was to walk into that traffic. A senseless tragedy that could have easily been prevented. If you want to blame someone besides Ward blame the sanctioning bodies for not putting the fear of God into these drivers to make them stay in their cars. I think at a minimum they should be banned for the rest of the season if not for life for getting out of a car and walking in traffic like that.

Rainbow > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
08/12/2014 at 01:28

In the video, the other car just before is travelling a lot slower. It's complicated with what little evidence we have, but my stance is just that Stewart very well could have prevented this by just slowing down and being less reckless.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Ryanator122
08/12/2014 at 01:29

Bamahoon hit the nail on the head. Gassing it was most likely the easiest way to break his line and get away. If the kid hadn't kept running at a car that obviously wasn't stopping, the maneuver would have worked.

mcseanerson > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:29

So if a suicidal person runs in front of your car somewhere you would never expect like the freeway and you kill them you should be charged with manslaughter?

Rainbow > mcseanerson
08/12/2014 at 01:30

If that person came out of a car that I had just hit, then yes. Because I knew that the wrecked car would be there and I knew to slow down and move over.

mcseanerson > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:31

Ditto. A human on two feet is a lot more agile than a car with tiny steering tires and giant drive tires.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:31

This is something I've deliberately tried to avoid making conjecture about. I'm certain Tony never intended to kill anyone. Anybody who believes he was trying to kill the guy is a fucking idiot. Whether or not he was trying to spook the guy by revving past him, I don't really know. Similarly, I don't know if Tony even saw the guy. What I do know is that the poor guy wouldn't have died if he hadn't run out onto the track. Not saying he's completely at fault (or rather that Tony isn't), just that this dangerous behavior was liable to get someone killed just as it did. I'm just going to sit this one out and watch quietly from the sidelines.

mcseanerson > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:32

Why would you be hitting a person who's car you just hit on the freeway? It was an accident and it was a caution. He was going slower. Slower in a racecar is not 5-10 mph.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > mcseanerson
08/12/2014 at 01:33

That's the part that I really feel is the icing on the cake of the whole situation. Ward ran at a moving car, and more importantly, one with an open wheel design. The guy had no sense at all about him.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:33

He could have possibly, but I wasn't there so I don't know all the facts. You should also realize that there are no spotters. Also, you have to factor in that possibly he didn't see the yellow flag and the one guy that is supposed to tell him about it failed at his job.

mcseanerson > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:34

Getting out of a disabled car and walking into traffic is pretty reckless.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:36

What happens when you hit the brakes on dirt? Tony had 2 options:

Hit the brakes and slide side first into the kid, killing him for sure

Or gas it to break line and hope the guy isn't already too close.

The second would have worked had Ward not kept coming at the car. However his death wish makes Tony look like the bad guy, even though he made the right choice. And the media is gonna play it as Tony's fault because they're not gonna put down a dead man. Don't fall for it.

mcseanerson > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:39

I have two young children and I would be beside myself with limitless grief if something happened to them. I understand sometimes no matter what you say or how you raise your kids they can be headstrong and want to do what they want and will only do what they want. I feel a lot of sorrow for Ward's family because I don't know how I would get through it.

All that being said I would like to involve my kids in motorsports, probably karting to start. If they ever did something that foolish and reckless though I would kick their ass so they would remember to never do anything that stupid again. I would also take them out of all motorsports until they learned to demonstrate some restraint and some sense.

Rainbow > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
08/12/2014 at 01:39

Oh, definitely. I'm willing to take back everything I've said if we get more/better evidence. I just feel that what we have currently points toward Stewart being majorly responsible.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:40

Doesn't mean you expect the person to run out in front of your car and are prepared for it. Tony probably expected Ward to still be in his car LIKE HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE in these situations. This isn't freaking Ricky Bobby. You stay in your car until the cleanup crew arrives. That's how it is.

mcseanerson > mcseanerson
08/12/2014 at 01:42

Kinja'd!!!

I mean seriously, all the people saying It would be so easy to avoid him. Look at the ratio of the size of the rear tire to the front and also consider how frickin big they are compared to Ward himself. On top of that they are driving on a loose surface and something tells me they probably don't have power steering either. You ever tried to make a quick turn with huge tires and no power steering? It's done with the throttle.

Rainbow > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:43

Honestly, I haven't read or watched anything except for the video of the incident. I will admit that perspective makes it difficult to see how much space was between Ward and the line of traffic. I'm seeing it as though he was giving enough room, and Tony gassing it is what pushed it over the line. I may be wrong, and I'm willing to take back everything if we get a better angle or other evidence.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > mcseanerson
08/12/2014 at 01:45

And really, that's what no one is saying. As much as the media wants to shout "Tony Stewart hits and kills fellow driver!", there's as much a case for headline " 20 year old driver leaves car after accident, gets killed on hot track"

See how much different the story becomes when you look at the story with more facts and less flash?

mcseanerson > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:46

Yeah as much as I don't want to speak ill of the dead or want to upset their family any more than they already are there is only one thing that without shadow of a doubt clear in all the evidence. Ward should not have walked into the traffic. Anything else is debatable but there is no gray area on that one.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 01:51

His background doesn't help his cause.

Textured Soy Protein > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 01:56

Allow me to put on my English major hat, and look at the language being used.

Many of the headlines have some variation of "Tony Stewart hit and killed another driver." Which in and of itself, isn't exactly false.

It's also not as informative as "Tony Stewart hit and killed another driver who had gotten out of his car and was running around on the track." But that's a pretty long headline.

I've yet to see a single headline that says, "Tony Stewart intentionally hit and killed another driver."

So, where exactly is he being demonized?

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 02:19

The only reason this story is a story is because it was Tony Stewart that hit him, Had the 45 hit him no one would've given a shit. It would've been news in Canandaigua but no where else.

Garrett Davis > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 03:08

I've kept my mouth shut (or keyboard), until now because I didn't feel like arguing, but damn.

First off, I didn't watch the video until earlier today, as I don't care to watch people die, but after reading some comments, I felt I needed to get some context and see where everyone is coming from on this, so I watched it.

My first thought: H oly shit, I had no idea everyone went so fast during a caution.

I come from a background of stock car racing. My family races stock cars and I have spent many, many a weekend out at my local track and in the pits, but I've never actually watched any sprint car racing. After doing a little reading, I'm seeing that these things idle at 35-45 miles an hour, which is nuts, and seeing the crazy tire/wing setup is equally insane. When everyone talked about how you slow down for a caution, I was picturing 15-20 mph max, but everyone out there was going a hell of a lot faster than that, not just Tony. Everyone made it sound like Tony was going so much faster than everyone else and that he had plenty of time to avoid him, but this is just how it's done in this racing.

Then I looked up an in-car view of a sprint car:

The right side of the wing goes down almost level with the hood! How the hell are people discounting the amount of visibility this cuts? On a dark track with someone wearing a dark suit and this kind of visibility, I can't believe more accidents don't happen.

Then there's how close Ward was getting to these cars. I say these cars because just by reading the comments, you don't get the idea of how the car before Tony nearly clipped him as well, and Ward jumped back. This is without that car being the one he's going for, let alone how close he must have gotten to Tony for this to happen. This is completely excluding how ridiculous these cars must be to handle.

I just don't see any way that this is something other than a horrible accident. Nothing more. Everything happened way too fast for there to be any real motive there. I really hate how everyone is demonizing either person in this situation.

E92M3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 06:53

Because "20 yr old kid dies in unfortunate racing accident" wouldn't get as many clicks.

f86sabre > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 07:28

If Ward would have gotten out and thrown his helmet at Stewart and it bounced down the track it would have been on Sports Center as a highlight. People would have been talking aboit the kid who stood up to Smoke. That is a culture we need to fix. How often are fights and wrecks from Bristol the only thing to make the standard news cycle? Is this culture a direct cause? Probably not, but I feel it had an affect on some level .

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/12/2014 at 08:01

Also very true.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 08:51

SI reposted a 12-year-old story about his temper...

Stewart, at worst, made an error in judgment. Ward put himself in a deadly situation, and it proved to be just that.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 08:54

No. Ward has to shoulder the vast majority of the blame here.

Stewart, at worst, made an error in judgment. Ward actively put himself in a deadly situation, and it proved to be just that.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rainbow
08/12/2014 at 09:01

A wrecked car on a racetrack should never equate to a person walking that low on the banking...

Here's what I equated the situation to yesterday:

Example: you're driving down the highway at night, and take your eyes off the road for a split second to look at your phone. When you look up, there's a person in your lane and you try to swerve, but are too late. Did you make a mistake by taking your eyes off the road? Yes. Are you more to blame than the person standing on the highway? No.

I'm not saying Stewart was being inattentive, just that he also made small mistake, perhaps in that his reaction to the situation wasn't as quick or as cautious as it should have been.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 09:08

That's absolutely the way it should be.

However, in race series like these (and even in NASCAR) the drama isn't condemned as heavily as it should be, you might argue that it's even encouraged, because it adds to the drama and draw for fans and viewers. I put some blame on the people in charge of the series itself. If Ward knew that actions like he took would mean a season-long ban, do you think he'd have gotten out of the car?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > mcseanerson
08/12/2014 at 09:09

Exactly. Thank you.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/12/2014 at 09:10

Sadly...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein
08/12/2014 at 09:13

SI reposted a 12-year-old article about his temper. What is that implying?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/12/2014 at 10:55

Exactly. My thing is that why would Tony be mad at all? He wasn't the one who wrecked, and his maneuver wasn't exactly super aggressive. He had no reason to even try to scare Ward unless it was just to get him off the track.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/12/2014 at 10:57

It's hard to tell. He was 20, and people that age don't always think clearly. I do know that a person racing since they were 4 should know better and knows the risks.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 11:42

I know that I, personally, have use "throttle on avoidance" in response to other drivers being stupid on the road. Honestly, sometimes it's the safest route to take. Is that sometimes mixed with a little anger at the person acting un-intelligently? Yes. But in no way am I looking to harm that person or cause a collision; I am only, perhaps, along with my primary purpose of avoidance, serving them a warning with the sound of my engine and exhaust.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 11:45

Sadly, giving into rage can cloud even the sharpest, most experienced mind.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/12/2014 at 12:57

That is truth. All the more reason we need these to be hard and fast rules I guess. Driver judgment is infinitely falable.

jvirgs drives a Subaru > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 18:58

If you thought the headlines were bad, you should have seen Nancy Grace's story on it last night. I wanted to reach through the TV and strangle that classless bitch.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jvirgs drives a Subaru
08/12/2014 at 19:26

I never saw it, but my father-in-law told me about it. Sounds like she handled it pretty poorly

jvirgs drives a Subaru > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
08/12/2014 at 19:43

She finished up with a segment about Tony's "rage" and brought up the spinning of Gordon on pit road in 2001, the reporter incident in 2002 and pretty much any wreck he was involved in until now. HLN f'ed the segment up so bad to the point where there were F1 clips shown.